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The Flaw with most RPGS!!!
Author
The way i see it RPG''s create a vivid world that is quite possable and with many possablities, but i see one nagging and reacurring problem.
To best explain this i will use the example of the Knight and Mage(in a midevil RPG(take your pick thare is a lot of them))
SO lets compare the knight has a powerfull Sword(big phisical attack) The mage has a staff(physical attack is laghable) the Knight has unlimited attacks, the mage uses spell points or MP
(which means to do significant attacks he needs to use a decent portion of mana(MP or Spell points); The Knight has twice to three times the HP of the mage!; The knight has a bigger defence
with armor and muscle; but most of all the Mage dose less spell damage due to magic doing damage versus int(or mind...)because the knight has little int!
Now this is rediculous the FireBall(or any attack spell) dosent ask its target a math question and do damage accordingly!
the fact is that most games understand the speed vs. strength but rairly strength vs. magic
because any idiout will tell you that if you controll some mistic art a simple warrier will have no chance(but in most games its the other way around!)
i would like to know what you think?
(respond)
The Necromancer Calls forth...
Keep conjuring the undead, my friends...
quote:
because any idiout will tell you that if you controll some mistic art a simple warrier will have no chance(but in most games its the other way around!)
So any idiot will tell you how magic works, when in fact magic is part of the fantasy, not reality? Magic works how the designer of the magic system deems it will work, which may or may not be how you think it should be. It sounds like you''re saying that developers should all have their magic system conform to one method of doing things, which doesn''t make a whole lot of sense.
-Ironblayde
Aeon Software
Author
LET ME CLERIFY
basicaly im saying that: in a battle of MAGIC vs MIGHT usaualy wins in RPG''s and to me magic should have the upper hand!
for example
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS: a wizzard has no chance agenst a knight, one hit and the wizzard dies, also his attacks have to wait for charge time!)
or exampleVAGRANT STORY: attack magic is basicaly worthless)
and the list of games whare magic is grately underrated goes on!
understand...?
Keep conjuring the undead, my friends...
basicaly im saying that: in a battle of MAGIC vs MIGHT usaualy wins in RPG''s and to me magic should have the upper hand!
for example
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS: a wizzard has no chance agenst a knight, one hit and the wizzard dies, also his attacks have to wait for charge time!)or example
VAGRANT STORY: attack magic is basicaly worthless)and the list of games whare magic is grately underrated goes on!
understand...?
Keep conjuring the undead, my friends...
Since when do mages not stand a chance against warriors?
I''ve never heard of such a thing. Maybe you just aren''t well suited to playing wizard-types. I know that especially given lag-intensive multi-player mages have quite an edge. Most spells I have seen are quite good compared to a big sword: Longer range, even area effect, added side-effects, speed in some cases, homing abilities (able to hit fast moving targets).
Perhaps you are only thinking of low-level characters. Most DnD players will tell you fighters are better than wizards at low levels, but the higher level you are, the more of an advantage it is to be a wizard.
Second of all, how is this a flaw? (At least not the biggest flaw by a long shot.)
>because any idiot will tell you that if you control some mystic
>art a simple warrior will have no chance.
Generally they will not be fighting a simple warrior. They are probably fighting some of the best warriors in the world, and who said that a mystic art must stand a chance against a blood-thirsty warrior? Mystic arts are by necessity not the easiest to use. I would expect many wizards with less skill die all the time at the hands of a warrior.
Anyway, I don''t think that mage/warrior balance is the key issue
concerning RPG''s, although it is Very Important. I think that a good deal of time should be spent to ensure balance in this among other things.
-A big fan of mage-type characters
I''ve never heard of such a thing. Maybe you just aren''t well suited to playing wizard-types. I know that especially given lag-intensive multi-player mages have quite an edge. Most spells I have seen are quite good compared to a big sword: Longer range, even area effect, added side-effects, speed in some cases, homing abilities (able to hit fast moving targets).
Perhaps you are only thinking of low-level characters. Most DnD players will tell you fighters are better than wizards at low levels, but the higher level you are, the more of an advantage it is to be a wizard.
Second of all, how is this a flaw? (At least not the biggest flaw by a long shot.)
>because any idiot will tell you that if you control some mystic
>art a simple warrior will have no chance.
Generally they will not be fighting a simple warrior. They are probably fighting some of the best warriors in the world, and who said that a mystic art must stand a chance against a blood-thirsty warrior? Mystic arts are by necessity not the easiest to use. I would expect many wizards with less skill die all the time at the hands of a warrior.
Anyway, I don''t think that mage/warrior balance is the key issue
concerning RPG''s, although it is Very Important. I think that a good deal of time should be spent to ensure balance in this among other things.
-A big fan of mage-type characters
Author
PONDER THIS:
a mage has limited attacks due to MP or spell points and he has to "Charge" his spells once learned (most games the mage has to wait to use his spells)
! i say that a mage should have MP or "charge" times but not bolth.. after all if he learns magic all his life (making him weak with stringht) then he would not have to charge or would have so much mana that he would almost have an endless supply of spells
I JUST THINK ONE WHAY OR ANNOTHER THE MAGE(like) CLASS GETS JIPPED BECAUSE THE PROGRAMERS DONT FEEL LIKE MAKING THE MAGE THAT INTRACATE!
PLEASE MAKE A MAGE AS POWERFULL AS HE SHOULD BE
Keep conjuring the undead, my friends...
a mage has limited attacks due to MP or spell points and he has to "Charge" his spells once learned (most games the mage has to wait to use his spells)
! i say that a mage should have MP or "charge" times but not bolth.. after all if he learns magic all his life (making him weak with stringht) then he would not have to charge or would have so much mana that he would almost have an endless supply of spells
I JUST THINK ONE WHAY OR ANNOTHER THE MAGE(like) CLASS GETS JIPPED BECAUSE THE PROGRAMERS DONT FEEL LIKE MAKING THE MAGE THAT INTRACATE!
PLEASE MAKE A MAGE AS POWERFULL AS HE SHOULD BE
Keep conjuring the undead, my friends...
Well I see your point but I tend to disagree strongly. In most RPG I''ve played (both CRPG/MMORPG and table top), mages are not intended as killing machines and will usually die pretty fast if left alone.
Now to say than a mage is less powerful than a warrior isn''t true. Sure, a warrior will certainly kill a mage if in a melee situation. That''s what the warrior was trained for all his life. Now if the mage is some distance away, the situation isn''t the same at all.
Now again, casting a DnD like fireball at a warrior would probably not be smart, since it is intended as an area spell. It will work great against a group of low level warriors.
So sure, using brute force spells vs a fighter-type character is maybe unbalanced, because brute force is the area of expertise of fighting type classes. However, who else than a mage can dominate/paralyze someone or summon monsters to help him?
Some over exagerated (sp?) exemples :
Paralyze the warrior, teleport him far away and call an earthquake on that area. The warrior stands no chance.
Cast a fireball at him. He looses 30% of his HPs and then he''s on the mage. The mage''s dead.
It''s all a matter of how smart you play your mage.
Now to say than a mage is less powerful than a warrior isn''t true. Sure, a warrior will certainly kill a mage if in a melee situation. That''s what the warrior was trained for all his life. Now if the mage is some distance away, the situation isn''t the same at all.
Now again, casting a DnD like fireball at a warrior would probably not be smart, since it is intended as an area spell. It will work great against a group of low level warriors.
So sure, using brute force spells vs a fighter-type character is maybe unbalanced, because brute force is the area of expertise of fighting type classes. However, who else than a mage can dominate/paralyze someone or summon monsters to help him?
Some over exagerated (sp?) exemples :
Paralyze the warrior, teleport him far away and call an earthquake on that area. The warrior stands no chance.
Cast a fireball at him. He looses 30% of his HPs and then he''s on the mage. The mage''s dead.
It''s all a matter of how smart you play your mage.
In my experience mage''s have always been mroe powerful then warriors, and that is why I continue to be a mage on every RPG I play.
Fair enough you die in one hit and are weak and low health.
1) Cast a shield of some sort, most RPG''s have a spell for this.
2) Don''t let the warrior get close to you, cast slow or what ever special spell''s there are.
3) While he is slowed or stuck, blow the crap out of them with your biggest and most powerful spell.
Most classes have there advantages and disadvantages, perhap''s you should find which one suit''s you best.
Also If mage''s could use spell''s like a warrior wields his blade, Mage''s would have a distinct advantage which is what game designer''s want to avoid, a single class better then the rest. I could be wrong.
Fair enough you die in one hit and are weak and low health.
1) Cast a shield of some sort, most RPG''s have a spell for this.
2) Don''t let the warrior get close to you, cast slow or what ever special spell''s there are.
3) While he is slowed or stuck, blow the crap out of them with your biggest and most powerful spell.
Most classes have there advantages and disadvantages, perhap''s you should find which one suit''s you best.
Also If mage''s could use spell''s like a warrior wields his blade, Mage''s would have a distinct advantage which is what game designer''s want to avoid, a single class better then the rest. I could be wrong.
quote: Original post by Landfish
"Flaw?" As in singular, meaning only one?
LOL!!!!
--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...
It all comes down to what spells you can use as a mage. As in most action crpg''s that i''ve played the mage''s spells are all weapons which doesn''t leave much for the creatively inspired. I would like to see mages have more spells that are not necessarily used as a weapon but with a little clever thinking they can be.
"So your the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"
"So your the one that designed that game are you?"
*Gulp* "Umm, yeah"
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