Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: Original post by Kuraitou
from what I hear, it's hard to get into the industry.

It depends. If you're not capable of doing the job, then yeah, you're hoping for a lucky chance that someone is desperate enough to hire you. If you are capable of doing the job, you've just got to wait for an opening and then p[rove your stuff.

Quote: I want to move to Japan sometime after I've built up experience and work for a game development studio there

Yeah, definately plan for this to happen later on in your career. Hiring foreigners is always a hassle - I've only seen it happen once for a junior position - usually it's reserved for people you really want/need to hire.

How much of a difference (to you specifically if you were considering hiring a foreigner whom you have slightly xenophobic thoughts toward) would portfolio work mean? If I can throw together some really amazing and unique demos and a few simple, yet extremely polished games, how much more of a chance would that give me?

I hate to put you in a position like that, but I'd like your answer no matter how biased it may be.

Quote: Original post by Hodgman
It's even worse if you're not completely fluent in the language spoken in the studio. Lots of european studios speak english, even in non-english-speaking countries, but I wouldn't expect this at all in Japan.

I am sure I will not find language learning to be a problem. I have managed to pick up a few languages quite easily; I'm not sure why, but I assume it has something to do with my learning many different programming languages and it sort of works the same way...

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: While it's not specifically game-related (actually, public safety) I'm sure it'll give me valuable real-world experience and would look great on my resume.

For sure. While other college grads can talk about their group assignments and sharing files over USB-drives, you'll be able to talk about how well you adjusted to a team environment and your experiences with their processes, source control, etc.
So... I'd definately give the job a shot, even if it only lasts you 3 months.

Well then, that sort of settles it. I was borderline about the whole thing but I'm think I'm going to try to give it a shot.

Quote: Original post by Hodgman

Quote: I need to work Japanese studies in here somewhere, either on my own time or via classes. I realize it takes much dedicated hard work to learn a language, but I believe I have what it takes. The problem here is that some people swear that language courses simply do not work. Is this really the case?

I think they're ok as long as you don't miss anything. I never paid much attention in my Japanese lessons, so after 2 years of lessons I can't go far past "where's the toilet" and can't read/write it any more (it's been 7 years since I learnt). I have friends from the same course who can still read and have basic conversions though, so it worked well enough for them.
Japan is weird in that they simultaneously love European/American stuff, but are also very traditional and isolated. Be prepared to be extremely respectful and to treat your superiors like they're higher life-forms than you ;) It's notoriously hard to "get on the same level" as your superiours there, and I hear even moreso as a gaijin.

I am aware of this mentality, but I don't see it a negative light. It's a shame that xenophobia has pervaded the culture throughout history, but hey. It's nothing but another challenge I can't overcome if I try. Plus, it seems to me that the nihonjinron ideology has worn off slowly (to an extent) in recent years.

Quote: Original post by Ravyne
First of all, and it seems to be quite common for some reason, I don't know why you think that moving to Japan should be any part of breaking into the games industry. Development is hard enough without throwing yourself into a situation where you'll be surrounded by the language barier on all sides.

The real Japan, while friendly, is also very insular. You cannot expect realistically, as an outsider, to simply storm the gates and make a big impact.

Further, Japan, while still a hugely important cultural region for games, isn't really the development or even technology center of gaming that it once may have been.

It does apply to the theory of breaking into the industry, because I must do it in another country. I have no idea if experience here has any ground over there, so I may need to study abroad and start over... I dunno. I just want a job doing what I love, no matter how hard it is.

Quote: Original post by Ravyne
This is a dream that seems to be common among wannabe game developers, and while I get that its part of your passion, its also kind of an unrealistic and, to a measure, childish, daydream. Even myself, I once thought that learning to speak fluent japanese would be a necessary skill -- reading would have been better a few years ago (documentation) -- but now I can see that its not at all necessary and only a 'nice to have' in a few, select roles.

I'm not at all trying to dash your dreams, but I just can't help but feeling that you're looking at this through childs' eyes, and you need to be realistic about the path you need to take to get where you want to be.

It's not a problem. I get this response quite often but I never let it get me down.

Quote: Original post by Tom Sloper
Hello Kura, you wrote:

>Tom Sloper's FAQ has helped me greatly (especially lesson 48), but I'm afraid it doesn't answer my specific questions.
>-Should I attempt to secure this job?

You mean, should you bother taking the application test for the summer job? Yeah, I forgot to mention that in FAQ 48. I slap my forehead and say, "chikusho!"
Why not take it? If you don't get that summer job, chances that you'll be moving to Japan instead are pretty slim.
You might not get the summer job, of course -- that wouldn't be the end of the world either.
Even if you do get the job, you should still go to college. You should talk to your dad about whether to work and skip college or not.
I wrote an article on how to make a decision. It's FAQ 70.

>-What other (better) alternatives are there?

Than applying for that summer job? I don't know. Some other summer job.

>-Somewhat unrelated, but what course of college study would you recommend for me?

You want to be a programmer, you said? View the Forum FAQ (above), and go to the For Beginners FAQ, and view that too. You should get a CS degree. You can minor in Japanese.

>The problem here is that some people swear that language courses simply do not work. Is this really the case?)

The problem here is that you listen to people you shouldn't listen to. How do you know we aren't some of those? Studying is actually a good way to learn things. Courses are a good way to study (you aren't a professional teacher, so you shouldn't teach yourself). But what I just said will find an argument here. Lots of GameDev regulars disagree with me on that point. That means you have to make a decision. I refer you again to my article 70.

Mr. Sloper, I really appreciate your feedback! How many years of study would you recommend for a CS degree? I was previously intent on getting a whole 8 years in an attempt to receive a Ph.D., but now I am unsure if I should scrap that and simply go for a 4-year master's degree and then take the rest of my time to study abroad in Japan to immerse myself in the culture as soon as possible. That way I could solidify a bit of knowledge before I get too old to efficiently learn things any more.

I'm sorry I missed #70. I will go take a look at it immediately.

Quote: Original post by Trapper Zoid
If it were me, if it's a summer job and looks reasonable I'd definitely strongly consider it. The main downside would be if you were missing a needed break before college after burning yourself out in final year; you'd have to make that call. For my software engineering course we all were expected to put in a few months of on-the-job experience to qualify (I think there was a loophole in that you could count the first few months of post graduation employment; I managed to find enough work between years to count regardless).

As for Japan, I'd expect there to be a large amount of culture shock. I've had a few friends work in Asia for a year or so, but they were all in teaching related positions. If you are dead set in experiencing life in Japan, there's always the option to spend a study year there. My unis had the option to apply for a year studying abroad at foreign universities, and I know there were several opportunities in Japan.

The final year of highschool was actually a breeze. I didn't feel pressured or anything, but it is a GREAT relief to have finished it.

Quote: Original post by Telastyn

Quote: Original post by Kuraitou
-Should I attempt to secure this job?

It depends on the situation. If you're going to get a summer internship or temp job, absolutely. If they expect you to work instead of going to college, no. If you'll get a lot of grief for the nepotism... maybe not.

I can assure you that my dad isn't that kind of person; as a matter of fact he stated that I'd probably be working for a different development head.

Quote: Original post by Telastyn

Quote:
-Somewhat unrelated, but what course of college study would you recommend for me? (Software engineering or a variation thereof, obviously, but more specifically, I need to work Japanese studies in here somewhere, either on my own time or via classes. I realize it takes much dedicated hard work to learn a language, but I believe I have what it takes. The problem here is that some people swear that language courses simply do not work. Is this really the case?)

I would expect a major in Computer Science and a minor in Japanese (or a double major if you're feeling ambitious). Sure, the courses might suck and you might need to do some work on your own to learn the language/kanji properly, but at the end you have the degree to put on your resume and that goes a long way.

Thank you for the input; I find it most valuable. I have not considered doing a double major, but after a little bit of research I believe I could work it into my schedule. I'll be sure to look into it further.

Quote: Original post by way2lazy2care
have you been to japan? You should visit it before you try to live there. It's a very different culture from most others, and you may find it doesn't mesh with you for living. I think it meshes with most people for vacations because it's a cool country, but it takes a lot to actually live there. Also keep in mind that coming back to visit your family if you get homesick is not trivial if you decide you don't like it.
...
Like some above said, Japan is not nearly the video game mecca you make it out to be. You should do a little more research before making such a large decision.

I have done my research and I believe that it is in my best interests to attempt to go to Japan. I genuinely love the culture and believe that I can make it work.

Quote: Original post by way2lazy2care
I'd take the summer job. If it's an internship level job, you should be able to get by and get plenty of relaxing in over the summer. Make a little cash, and spend some time thinking about it more.

Once again, thanks for the input.



-----

I believe I have come to the conclusion that I will go ahead in attempting to secure this job. Programming is extremely fun, and no matter how stressing the position might be, I think I'll learn a lot and really be able to have something to show for it.

If you were already living in Japan then having a very good portfolio might make it easier for you to land a job. But the chances are going to be about zero of a Japanese company hiring you from over here and moving you to Japan. You are going to be an outsider and will always be an outsider. So your skills will probably have to be very exceptional to get noticed. And being an outsider you will probably never rise above a code monkey position. Trust me, when you are young it sounds alright but you won't want to be 40 and baning out code 10 hours a day five or six days a week.

As was already said, western languages are all kind of similar since they share common root words so its fairly easy to pick them up. Japanese is a completely different ballgame. Even a lot of western words they have adopted have been changed quite a bit to fit their alphabet. Hell, my last name doesn't even have a direct translation in hiragana.

Make sure you want to go to Japan because you like the country and not because you have an idea its some kind of nerd fantasy land. If you move there because you think its a computer mecca you will quickly learn to hate it. To live, Okinawa would probably be a better choice. Its quite westernized because of US military presence but still very Japan.

Quote: Original post by Telastyn

Quote: Original post by Kuraitou
I can assure you that my dad isn't that kind of person; as a matter of fact he stated that I'd probably be working for a different development head.

He's not the person you're going to need to worry about. Working at a company involves interacting with a lot of people. Not all of them might be okay working with a 'snot nosed brat' as it were. Or there will be people who will perceive that you got the job based on familial pressure rather than merit.

It's just something to consider.

Hmmm, I suppose you're right. I can only hope to make a good impression.

Quote: Original post by szecs
For learning languages.
Which languages did you learn quickly?
If you can speak English, German becomes pretty easy. If you know some German, you can learn Swedish in 2 months (okay, pronunciation is very tricky in Swedish).

I learn Finnish at the moment. I am pretty talented in learning languages, but Finnish is very hard for me, I'm learning it for my own (I cannot afford courses, but I'm Hungarian). Grammar is nothing, words are everything. I picked up basic grammar in weeks, but the words are so different than in any other languages, that they are extremely hard to memorize. I can learn a Swedish word by reading it 2 or 3 times (because it's so similar to German or English). But I can cram Finnish words for hours, and I simply forget half of them the next day. I guess Japanese is the same. I don't want to discourage you, I just want to say, that you have to work very hard with Japanese.

I had picked up Spanish in about a month, including grammar, vocabulary, and all of those crazy [irregular] verb conjugations. I know it's sort of similar to English and therefore easier, but it's still another language. Plus, it gives me an idea of what learning a new language is about.

As a personal exercise, I learned a bit of French too. Enough to survive if I had to, at least, but I sort of gave up on that because it seemed too easy and I didn't like the fact that it was nearly identical to Spanish.

German...I won't bother mentioning that because you already covered it.

I _did_ study a bit of Japanese. Unfortunately all I've really done is picked up some basic grammar rules and vocabulary and learn Hiragana and maybe about 30 kanji... Not much to show for it but I haven't really had all that much time to work on it lately. I will say one thing though: grammar is much more important in this language than any other I've ever taken a look at.

Quote: Original post by jtagge75
If you were already living in Japan then having a very good portfolio might make it easier for you to land a job. But the chances are going to be about zero of a Japanese company hiring you from over here and moving you to Japan. You are going to be an outsider and will always be an outsider. So your skills will probably have to be very exceptional to get noticed. And being an outsider you will probably never rise above a code monkey position. Trust me, when you are young it sounds alright but you won't want to be 40 and baning out code 10 hours a day five or six days a week.

Fortunately I am working on building a polished portfolio. If nothing else seemed to work, hopefully it would be able to break through the entry barrier.

Also, they wouldn't hire a person from overseas right off the bat - that's right. Generally you would get a vacation visa, secure a job, and then come back on a work visa sponsored by the company that wishes to hire you.

Quote: Original post by jtagge75
Make sure you want to go to Japan because you like the country and not because you have an idea its some kind of nerd fantasy land.

I hate people like this, and I am aware of their presence. They give a bad name to the rest of us who are genuinely interested in Japanese culture. Many times I am grouped with them and it does hurt me, because no matter what I seem to say people think I'm just another one in denial.

Quote: Original post by Kuraitou

Quote: Original post by jtagge75
Make sure you want to go to Japan because you like the country and not because you have an idea its some kind of nerd fantasy land.

I hate people like this, and I am aware of their presence. They give a bad name to the rest of us who are genuinely interested in Japanese culture. Many times I am grouped with them and it does hurt me, because no matter what I seem to say people think I'm just another one in denial.

Not to stomp on dreams, but visit japan before you decide to live there. It is a very very different culture, and knowing a culture and loving your knowledge of that culture is not the same as loving that culture. It's something you have to experience before you can really love it.

-Should I attempt to secure this job?

Yes, without a doubt, take it. You are one of the very few people these days that gets an opportunity straight out of high school to land a programming job. Other kids will consider themselves lucky finding a help desk job. If you're going to be nearby, see if you can work out a part-time deal at the end of summer.


-What other (better) alternatives are there?

Well, an internship with a game developer obviously. Or a full-time junior position. Or winning the lottery. All of these are pretty much equally likely for a student in your position.


-Somewhat unrelated, but what course of college study would you recommend for me?

Computer science with a minor in Japanese, or even a dual major if you can swing it, though it will be quite difficult (might have to go over the credit hour limit and pay extra to squeeze all the classes in).

It's probably a little late in the game at this point (I assume you already have your college picked out), but you might be interested to know I went to a school that had 5-year engineering and computer science BS programs that included 18 months of internships (years 2-4, go to school for 3 months, work for 3, etc.). There are employees there whose sole job is finding students internships. It was effortless. Part of that was an option to apply for the international co-op program. Several of my friends lived in Japan for 5 months just before their senior year. Perhaps tellingly, only one of them went back (and he only went for 18 months, at Toyota's request).