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The best audio file format.
Author
Which audio file format will give me the smallest size per quality ASF, IT, MID, MOD, MP2, MP3, OGG, RAW, RMI, S3M, SGT, WAV, WMA, XM?
Edited by - GaMe wIg on October 10, 2001 6:50:16 PM
For sample based music: IT, MOD, S3M, and XM
For wave based music: OGG and/or MP3 (I like OGG though
)
[Resist Windows XP''s Invasive Production Activation Technology!]
For wave based music: OGG and/or MP3 (I like OGG though
) [Resist Windows XP''s Invasive Production Activation Technology!]
OGG can produce audio of a size and quality comparable with WMA or mp3, but without the licensing hassles. I''d go with OGG.
Andrew:
http://www.mp3licensing.com/
EDIT 1: Games cost: US$ 2 500.00 per title. Reasonable if you aren't a hobbyist.
EDIT 2:
I would consider ATRAC3, even though it isn't on your list. It is the compression used in newer Minidisc units and offers 3 types of compression. Standard, which is about 2mb per minute (full stereo, better than mp3 quality, can be better than CD in some circumstances, indistinguishable from CDs for recording music), Long Play 2 is 1mb per minute which is still better than mp3 and full stereo but there are some artefacts. And long play 4, which is 500kb per minute and it is about mp3 quality, and I think it isn't true stereo either (so if you have stereo effects, they can be lost or mutilated
)
I'm not sure about the licensing with them, but the codec is available free at the sony website.
When I say better than mp3, I'm thinking in reference to the 160kbps 44kHz recordings. I realise that different encoders are better than others, but if you compare the ATRAC3 compression to mp3, you will probably agree with me that it allows the psychoacoustic model of people be "exploited" with more control as to when and how.
What is the sound quality of OGG like? I've never played with it before.
Trying is the first step towards failure.
Edited by - ragonastick on October 12, 2001 9:14:04 AM
Edited by - ragonastick on October 12, 2001 9:19:34 AM
http://www.mp3licensing.com/
EDIT 1: Games cost: US$ 2 500.00 per title. Reasonable if you aren't a hobbyist.
EDIT 2:
quote: Note: No license fees are due if less than 5 000 copies of a particular game title are distributed.
I would consider ATRAC3, even though it isn't on your list. It is the compression used in newer Minidisc units and offers 3 types of compression. Standard, which is about 2mb per minute (full stereo, better than mp3 quality, can be better than CD in some circumstances, indistinguishable from CDs for recording music), Long Play 2 is 1mb per minute which is still better than mp3 and full stereo but there are some artefacts. And long play 4, which is 500kb per minute and it is about mp3 quality, and I think it isn't true stereo either (so if you have stereo effects, they can be lost or mutilated
)I'm not sure about the licensing with them, but the codec is available free at the sony website.
When I say better than mp3, I'm thinking in reference to the 160kbps 44kHz recordings. I realise that different encoders are better than others, but if you compare the ATRAC3 compression to mp3, you will probably agree with me that it allows the psychoacoustic model of people be "exploited" with more control as to when and how.
What is the sound quality of OGG like? I've never played with it before.
Trying is the first step towards failure.
Edited by - ragonastick on October 12, 2001 9:14:04 AM
Edited by - ragonastick on October 12, 2001 9:19:34 AM
From the Ogg Vorbis website :
Bearing in mind that the .mp3 format has little to REALLY advantage it over Ogg ( apart from number of accessible encoders and decoders; although this is probably irrelevant as you will only need one ), and Ogg is completely free for any use, I can see little reason why .mp3 should be chosen.
Edited by - Colin Barry on October 12, 2001 9:17:54 AM
quote:
Why Vorbis? MP3 is open.
No, it isn't. Fraunhofer (and other MPEG consortium members) claim that it is impossible to create an mp3 encoder without infringing on their patents. To create/use an encoder, the law says one must pay royalties to Fraunhofer and other MPEG Consortium members. In other words, you can play what you like, but you're not allowed to contribute without paying the ante. MPEG-4, destined to be the next generation of internet audio, is even more tightly controlled.
More worrisome is the prospect of behind the scenes alliances between MPEG (which dominates the audio technology) with the RIAA/music industry which seeks to control all distribution.
Do you really want a corporate alliance controlling what music you can listen to and when? Remember that the RIAA is working hard to make players that play anything other than officially sanctioned streams illegal.
Why Vorbis? We already have MP3 and don't want to change.
I'll be blunt.
If you didn't pay for that copy of mp3enc, you're [technically] a thief. Strictly speaking, LAME users are supposed to pay royalties to FhG too. Of course, MPEG members tend not to go after individuals; that would be nearly impossible.
Going after businesses is an entirely different thing. If you're running a business, you either pay the arbitrary royalties (FhG decides this on a case-by-case basis, and generally protects 'exclusives' it has arranged with other companies) or you don't stream. There are no low cost, unrestricted, legal streaming solutions for small business. The alternatives to MP3 aren't cheap either.
Bearing in mind that the .mp3 format has little to REALLY advantage it over Ogg ( apart from number of accessible encoders and decoders; although this is probably irrelevant as you will only need one ), and Ogg is completely free for any use, I can see little reason why .mp3 should be chosen.
Edited by - Colin Barry on October 12, 2001 9:17:54 AM
If you can figure it out, I''d recommend OGG for large wave files. If you''re looking for a music format and don''t want to waste your time with a recording studio, go with S3M, XM, or IT. I believe a derivative of S3M was used with the game One Must Fall 2097, and Terminal Velocity (the spaceflight/shooter) used some later amiga protracker format. If you go to the modplug homepage, http://www.modplug.com, they give away for free the Modplug Tracker program, which can do all of the important tracker formats. Though, keep in mind that you still need talent to make good music. 
:: Inmate2993
:: William C. Bubel
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."
:: Inmate2993
:: William C. Bubel
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."
first off modpug is a horrible tracker you''ll want to go with Impulse Tracker. 2nd, this is a personal opinion of mine, ogg is withstandable but mp3 is definatly smoother. one think thats different though, it, xm etc.. are trackers, they are somewhat limited to todays standards of quality music, they are definatly fun, but without layering and other stuff it''s just not worth it.
Project Majestic Mix
JAXX''''s music site
Project Majestic Mix
JAXX''''s music site
Actually, I quite like ModPlug. However, the amount of serious tracking I have done is neglible. What benefits does IT2 offer over ModPlug?
Trackers are, on the whole, quite limited. I find composing using one just to damned abstract. I prefer a piano roll type input than columns and ticks. And entering envelopes by hand as discreet values - *ugh*. But, on the other hand, there are certainly enough quality MOD''s around to warrant interest - commercial games including Unreal, Unreal Tourny and Deus Ex all use the MOD format, and have all been praised for their music.
Trackers are, on the whole, quite limited. I find composing using one just to damned abstract. I prefer a piano roll type input than columns and ticks. And entering envelopes by hand as discreet values - *ugh*. But, on the other hand, there are certainly enough quality MOD''s around to warrant interest - commercial games including Unreal, Unreal Tourny and Deus Ex all use the MOD format, and have all been praised for their music.
Actually, yes, Impulse Tracker is much better, but I was too lazy to look up the url. Impulse Tracker is a DOS program (I think there was a linux version in the works, but I haven''t heard anything about it in a LONG time) and looks like the big brother of Scream Tracker, which was arguably the best tracker. The layout is broken into pages: song info, pattern editor, sample library, instrument library. Samples, are wave files, if you don''t start with quality, it makes it harder to make the final song good. Then you merge multiple samples into a single instrument, with a envelope, panning, pitch editor. Then you use the instruments on a verticle pattern editor, I think piano roll is what you called it, but I''m not sure of the term''s meaning as it pertains to this. It''d actually do you better to just go see it for yourself, but yes, you do need to have talent and patience to work with it. Manually entering volume values for example does act as a fine tooth comb. A bit different then what Midi sequencers are used to, but you get a better result.
:: Inmate2993
:: William C. Bubel
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."
:: Inmate2993
:: William C. Bubel
"Please refrain from bothering Booster."
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