And, as I originally implied in my first post, I indicated that living and experiencing powerful experiences which involve adversity, risk, and pushing the limits are what give one the ability to understand the nuances of such activity, and should be considered a prerequsiste for writing about adventure.

Playing games, reading other novels, and watching movies are not necessarily adequate experience. Most good writing is written by authors who have lived and experienced that which they write about.

quote: Original post by bishop_pass
First you go on about how I don''t read the posts stored on this website, and then you exhibit the stupidity of demonstrating that you have not in fact been digesting what I myself have been saying.

of course; this is why i reply to you point by point, whereas you ignore anything that you can''t answer to. this is because nothing you say really matters or makes sense (you admitted this openly, with your "license to pontificate"). this is not stupidity or lack of attention on my part, it is lack of substance on yours.

quote: I did not say it was me that made my excursions wonderful. I explicitly made that clear earlier. I also said my excursions were not about hiking in the woods or other similar experiences. And you further demonstrate your lack of understanding by failing to fully appreciate the significance of the quotes I made in my last post.

you did say that it wasn''t about hiking, and it wasn''t because you are there babbling. however, in all of your long winded and heavily quoted examples, you were (a) hiking and (b) babbling inanely. please understand that i do not accept what you intend to "explicity make clear", rather i base my opinion on what you actually say. please do not put me down because i don''t care about the length of your quotations; i have spent a long time learning how to cut through the "fluff" (not my word of choice but i am trying to remain civil). life is too short to waste trying to affix meaning to the hot air of a pompous psuedointellectual.

quote: And further, until you get older and have the chance to experience and explore more of life and this world and demonstrate some wisdom and experience about things in this world, accept the fact that others have experienced far more than you.

heh heh heh. i am nearly 30, i have children, i am a decent hardworking member of society. i suppose you must be 105 years old, what with how much wiser and more "experienced" you are than everyone else on this message board. tell me, do you wear a pointy hat like gandalf? or are you just trying to pull "age rank" over me because i have a point and it hurts you to be proven wrong? please, tell us all, how old are you that we must bow to your wisdom?

quote: Accept the fact that I know a lot more than you about what I am talking about.

well, of course you do! and if i were to babble about the fantasy world i imagine, you can bet i''d be a better authority on it than anyone else too!

quote: Here is my second challenge to you: Share with my your knowledge of the types of excursions I am discussing so that it is evident that you have a position from which to challenge my offer.

i don''t really enjoy hiking; i prefer modern convenience to climbing things. although they are some type of mystical experience for you and anyone who you bring with you under your wing, it is not for me. once again i am going to have to refer you to my previous post (gee, is this getting boring yet? i wish to any gods that exist that you would learn to read the post you are responding to!) so you can understand that i never said anything about your wonderful locations, but rather i complained about your presense at these wonderful locations that would make it an annoyance and not an adventure.

quote: If you can''t do that, then go away kid, and come back when you are about fifteen years older and better able to avoid being a snot and less inclined to naive assumptions and an attitude indicating that you have already experienced most things.

I NEVER SAID I EXPERIENCED MOST THINGS!
that is your schtick. you are the one trying to monopolize any and all adventures; you are the one who claims that only through your "wise" guidance can anyone go someplace pretty and become a good writer.
as a side note, based on what i have seen in these forums, i do not think you are as good a writer as you seem to imply; you do not even have a command of the english language, or even an idea about making sense. i know, you will now claim that i just don''t understand (this is your only defense, as i have seen before). keep at it; denial is always fun.
[sarcasm]please call me "kid", "snot", or "naive" some more, it definitely makes your points that much stronger...[/sarcasm]

quote: Hmmm, how could you be a judge of my ability to hold a decent conversation? The two different threads in which you have addressed me, you have taken the attitude of an attacker with his own preconceived notions (which are becoming increasingly apparent are quite limited). In responding to such individuals, I have few kind or conversational words.

actually, you simply have a problem with being pompous, self-rightious, and obviously have a superiority complex. do not tell me that you have no preconceived notions; every human has them, this is how we deal with day-to-day life without figuring everything out every time we decide to do something. mine aren''t as limited as you would have people believe; as i said earlier, i simply have a talent at cutting out the "fluff" and getting to the point, something that quite quickly puts you on the defensive.

quote: As for you going by yourself, I don''t think you have the knowledge necessary. By knowledge, I mean knowledge of the places to go, how to get there, how to route find, what the dangers are, etc. I ordinarily would have granted you some semblance of knowing these things, but your posts continue to demonstrate otherwise.

this is possible, i suppose. i have never tried. i could, however, go with a guide who doesn''t annoy me (read: anyone but you), buy a map, read a book, et cetera. the point here is that you are not the only person available for such a trip; get off your high horse! and don''t say you would grant me anything! it is evident to anyone who can read this message board (read: anyone but you) that you have zero tolerance for someone who can see through your facade.

quote: As I proposed in my last post, please indicate that you do indeed actually have knowledge and expereince regarding these things. Also, if you have, say, been over Lamarck Col into the Evolution Basin or up the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek then maybe I might believe that you have earned the right to judge the merits of such endeavors.

stop trying to twist my words. i never said such places had no merits, nor did i judge anything at all except your preposterous claims that your company would improve my writing (and leave me an "ambulatory zombie"). keep in mind that had you never said you are more enjoyable than The Lord of the Rings , we would have no problem here.

quote: Just trying to show Lord of the Rings fans (of which most on these boards seem to be) what kind of powerful experiences can be had out there that are real, as opposed to vicarious experiences through movie screens, printed pages, or computer monitors.

i was please with the movie; this is perhaps the first time when a movie maker did not butcher the hell out of a good book. hell, the characters and scenery and whatnot ever looked very similar to what i had imagined as i read it. tell me, does your Lamarck Col host caves full of orcs? or are there walking talking trees in North Fork of Lone Pine Creek?
i do not deny that hiking in a pretty place can be very stimulating (if you are into that sort of thing), but i do not see the connection between that and improved writing (unless you are writing a book that involves hiking in pretty places).

quote: And, as I originally implied in my first post, I indicated that living and experiencing powerful experiences which involve adversity, risk, and pushing the limits are what give one the ability to understand the nuances of such activity, and should be considered a prerequsiste for writing about adventure.

actually, that didn''t come up until later (i guess you don;t read your own posts either, huh?)
would you care to support this? where did tolkien hike?

quote: Playing games, reading other novels, and watching movies are not necessarily adequate experience. Most good writing is written by authors who have lived and experienced that which they write about.

again, any support? blanket statements without examples don''t prove a thing, especially coming from a "card carrying pontificator" like yourself; we expect you to try and pull one over on us by now.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

For cryin'' out loud!

What a friggin'' hanger on kind of brat you are. If you''re not interested, go away. And you accuse ME of being on a high horse.

Fuck.

quote: Original post by bishop_pass
For cryin'' out loud!
What a friggin'' hanger on kind of brat you are. If you''re not interested, go away. And you accuse ME of being on a high horse.
Fuck.

well, you can''t expect me to just drop it when you are intent on making me look bad (i.e. claiming i just can''t possibly understand, calling me "naive", "kid", "snot", and "brat", et cetera).

i take it you are implying that i am on a high horse now. any support? or just more name calling?

heh heh, i bet you used to say you have a "license to pontificate" a lot, thinking it sounds cool. did it ruin your day when i told you what those words mean?

by the way, i am still interested in knowing how old you are...

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

Now that I have that out, if you do not want to cut through the fluff (whatever that is) I may answer each of your points in turn when I feel like it. But you continue to stress that you aren''t interested, and yet continue to come back to make some kind of point, whatever it is.

krez,
For someone of 30, you display a remarkable ability to dwell and hang on one''s words, whether literal, metaphorical, in jest, or just to be an antagonizing and annoying individual.

If you are interested, and if you decide to start fresh now with knowledge of what I am discussing, then I will revoke all prior insults directed towards you (assuming you do likewise), and we can discuss something we might both be mutually be interested in.

Otherwise, just go away.

quote: Original post by krez
i take it you are implying that i am on a high horse now. any support?

Yeah, most of your last posts.

quote: Original post by krez
heh heh, i bet you used to say you have a "license to pontificate" a lot, thinking it sounds cool. did it ruin your day when i told you what those words mean?

I have never said that before. And, no, it didn''t ruin my day because you wanted to read into it what you wanted to.

quote: Original post by krez
by the way, i am still interested in knowing how old you are...

I''m 36.

quote: Original post by bishop_pass
Now that I have that out, if you do not want to cut through the fluff (whatever that is)

fluff (noun): circumlocution used with the intent of hiding ones true meaning, or hiding the lack of true meaning. see also, bullshit .

quote: I may answer each of your points in turn when I feel like it.

well, you can't honestly expect anyone to believe your side of the issue when you won't support it until you "feel like it.

quote: But you continue to stress that you aren't interested, and yet continue to come back to make some kind of point, whatever it is.

i said i was uninterested in hiking with you; i am however still interested in finding out what exactly makes you think that you are the only person in the world capable of such journeys.
if you learn to read the posts properly (oh no, this again?), you would see my point.

quote: For someone of 30, you display a remarkable ability to dwell and hang on one's words, whether literal, metaphorical, in jest, or just to be an antagonizing and annoying individual.

for a "writer", you display a remarkable ability to ignore the proper use of words.
tell me, on this [text] message board, what am i supposed to be dwelling on? the best and most vague metaphore? what do we have other than words?

quote: If you are interested, and if you decide to start fresh now with knowledge of what I am discussing, then I will revoke all prior insults directed towards you (assuming you do likewise), and we can discuss something we might both be mutually be interested in.

ok, but you have to say "uncle" too!

quote: Otherwise, just go away.

i will go away when my work is finished, or when someone gives me a good reason to leave (rather than simply a command).
EDIT: post timing issues made my next comment worthless...
--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

Edited by - krez on December 23, 2001 7:12:49 PM

quote: Original post by bishop_pass
me: i take it you are implying that i am on a high horse now. any support?
you: Yeah, most of your last posts.

um, you''re gonna have to do better than that. anything specific? anything at all?

quote: me: heh heh, i bet you used to say you have a "license to pontificate" a lot, thinking it sounds cool. did it ruin your day when i told you what those words mean?
you: I have never said that before. And, no, it didn''t ruin my day because you wanted to read into it what you wanted to.

read into it? what "reading into it" occurred here? i was simply going by the definitions of the words!

quote: I''m 36.

ahhh... well you might not agree, but that is hardly old enough to be calling me "kid"

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

quote: Original post by krez
of course; this is why i reply to you point by point,

An indication of your obsessive fascination with this thread which I started and my remarks, but not necessarily any validation of your reponses...

quote: Original post by krez
whereas you ignore anything that you can't answer to.

Or maybe I just am not terribly interested in typing a lot just to refute the barbed and sometimes groundless things you have to say. It is folly to assume my not answering something is because I can't. Get your logic right.

quote: Original post by krez
this is because nothing you say really matters or makes sense

Whatever. I have been providing help, insights, and conversation on these boards for about 8 times as long as you have.

quote: Original post by krez
(you admitted this openly, with your "license to pontificate").

I admitted in a joking matter (which you seem to want to dwell on for an eternity) to one of your remarks that I have a "license to pontificate" meaning (again, in a joking matter) that if anyone has a right to discuss the excursions I was intending, it would be me. No doubt you will continue to dwell on this.

quote: Original post by krez
this is not stupidity or lack of attention on my part, it is lack of substance on yours.

Essentially, another groundless statement. My posts do indeed have substance in them. Ask many veteran members around here, including sunandshadow, Wavinator, Nazrix, Diodor, TerranFury, Densun...

quote: Original post by krez
you did say that it wasn't about hiking, and it wasn't because you are there babbling. however, in all of your long winded and heavily quoted examples, you were (a) hiking and (b) babbling inanely.

You make more remarks here about me babbling and how long winded I am, and yet I continue to see you harp about me nonstop. I actually do have something here to say other than harp on another's words.

quote: Original post by krez
please understand that i do not accept what you intend to "explicity make clear", rather i base my opinion on what you actually say.

Fascinating. You form opinions about what I say. Gee, I never would have guessed from your dozen or so 'long winded' posts which do nothing BUT state your opinion about what I say.

quote: Original post by krez
please do not put me down because i don't care about the length of your quotations;

Why not? Why should I NOT put you down? I make posts, and you come in and harp on every word, dissecting right and left.

quote: Original post by krez
i have spent a long time learning how to cut through the "fluff" (not my word of choice but i am trying to remain civil).

Civility on your part would have kept you from making your very first post in this thread.

quote: Original post by krez
life is too short to waste trying to affix meaning to the hot air of a pompous psuedointellectual.

Really? Then why do spend your oh so short life in here attempting to affix meaning to my words?

quote: Original post by krez
heh heh heh. i am nearly 30, i have children, i am a decent hardworking member of society. i suppose you must be 105 years old, what with how much wiser and more "experienced" you are than everyone else on this message board.

No, not wiser than everyone else on this message board, but clearly wiser than one particular individual on this message board.

quote: Original post by krez
tell me, do you wear a pointy hat like gandalf?

No. But I can tell you think I think I am Gandalf. Good for you.

quote: Original post by krez
or are you just trying to pull "age rank" over me because i have a point and it hurts you to be proven wrong?

You haven't had a point since you entered this thread.

quote: Original post by krez
once again i am going to have to refer you to my previous post (gee, is this getting boring yet? i wish to any gods that exist that you would learn to read the post you are responding to!) so you can understand that i never said anything about your wonderful locations, but rather i complained about your presense at these wonderful locations that would make it an annoyance and not an adventure.

So, if my presence at these wonderful locations offends you so much, then what is your problem since we are likely 3,000 miles apart and will never be nearer?

quote: Original post by krez
I NEVER SAID I EXPERIENCED MOST THINGS!
that is your schtick. you are the one trying to monopolize any and all adventures; you are the one who claims that only through your "wise" guidance can anyone go someplace pretty and become a good writer.

No, I am merely suggesting that some of my favorite destinations can be powerful experiences. Come along with me (no, not you specifically) and let me share with you these experiences. I have engaged in these endeavors numerous times and so on.

quote: Original post by krez
as a side note, based on what i have seen in these forums, i do not think you are as good a writer as you seem to imply; you do not even have a command of the english language, or even an idea about making sense. i know, you will now claim that i just don't understand (this is your only defense, as i have seen before). keep at it; denial is always fun.

More groundless drivel. I am not even an aspiring writer. I am an appreciative reader of other writers though. Another false assumption on your part.

quote: Original post by krez
[sarcasm]please call me "kid", "snot", or "naive" some more, it definitely makes your points that much stronger...[/sarcasm]

Sure. You are a snot, and in many ways naive. And based on your hang on attitude, you come off as a kid. Additionally, you are quite hypocritical.

quote: Original post by krez
actually, you simply have a problem with being pompous, self-rightious, and obviously have a superiority complex. do not tell me that you have no preconceived notions; every human has them, this is how we deal with day-to-day life without figuring everything out every time we decide to do something. mine aren't as limited as you would have people believe; as i said earlier, i simply have a talent at cutting out the "fluff" and getting to the point, something that quite quickly puts you on the defensive.

Actually, you have a talent at being a snot, and little more.

quote: Original post by krez
this is possible, i suppose. i have never tried. i could, however, go with a guide who doesn't annoy me (read: anyone but you), buy a map, read a book, et cetera. the point here is that you are not the only person available for such a trip; get off your high horse! and don't say you would grant me anything! it is evident to anyone who can read this message board (read: anyone but you) that you have zero tolerance for someone who can see through your facade.

My facade! That is right! I actually have no knowledge or experience at what I discuss! You FOUND me out krez. Oh God, please don't tell anyone!

quote: Original post by krez
stop trying to twist my words. i never said such places had no merits, nor did i judge anything at all except your preposterous claims that your company would improve my writing (and leave me an "ambulatory zombie"). keep in mind that had you never said you are more enjoyable than The Lord of the Rings , we would have no problem here.

I saw that movie last night. It was pretty good.

quote: Original post by krez
i was please with the movie; this is perhaps the first time when a movie maker did not butcher the hell out of a good book. hell, the characters and scenery and whatnot ever looked very similar to what i had imagined as i read it. tell me, does your Lamarck Col host caves full of orcs?

No, it looks like the gateway to Mordor.

quote: Original post by krez
or are there walking talking trees in North Fork of Lone Pine Creek?

No, are walking trees a prerequisite to a powerful experience on a par or better than watching a 3 hour movie?

quote: Original post by krez
i do not deny that hiking in a pretty place can be very stimulating (if you are into that sort of thing), but i do not see the connection between that and improved writing (unless you are writing a book that involves hiking in pretty places).

Geez, it isn't the hiking necessarily that improves the writing. It is the nuances of an experience comprised of experiencing and gaining knowledge about weather, terrain, bonding, fatigue, AMS, risk, fear, mountain topology, limits, nighttime skies, winds howling down canyons, discipline, resolve, creek crossings, rockfall, feelings of loss and lonliness, isolation, otherworldy landscapes, ice, snowtravel, pain, planning, lightwieght travel, rationing, equipment, exhaustion, expansive vistas, gateways to other worlds via high passes, and so on.

quote: Original post by krez
again, any support? blanket statements without examples don't prove a thing, especially coming from a "card carrying pontificator" like yourself; we expect you to try and pull one over on us by now.

Do you really believe yourself? Do you really need me to provide support to the notion that experience helps writing? Unbelievable. I will let this one go. If you bring it up again, I will provide numerous examples. And you had better be prepared to read them, or don't bring it up.

Edited by - bishop_pass on December 23, 2001 7:57:30 PM