Steampunk: I have a weakness for "weird science". A lot of great opportunities exist (IMHO) for exploiting the victorian mindset (emperialism, extreme xenophobia, etc). While there is the potential to be somewhat offensive due to the xenophobia element, it can add a lot to the game (for example, "everyone" believes the natives are canibals, but you''ve got to bring one or two along in your party as a guide, or be hopelessly lost in the area). Lots of superstition, and low-tech technological marvels are just cool. See Arthur Conan Doyle''s professor challenger stories, Jules Verne, HG Wells, etc. Some Ray Bradbury stories also possess that special magic, along with a lot of the old-school science fiction radio programs. Games... Space 1899, The two Worlds of Ultima games, the Chaos Engine (any others???)

Low Fantasy: "Gritty" fantasy. No knights in shining armor rescuing princesses, Good Vs. Evil is grey vs grey, instead of black vs white. Heroes tend to fall into their circumstances, while trying to go on with life the only way they can. Monsters tend to have more of an impact than "Oh, another dragon". Examples: Fritz Leiber (Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser), Michael Moorecock (Elric of Melnibone), HP Lovecraft, etc. Games: ... I think there was an old Infocom Game that loosely fell into this category, but cannot remember the name of it, some Survival Horror games might almost make it. I''ve seen more tabletop games fall into this category than computer games. There was an old Dragon magazine article that gave a couple pages of coverage on the difference between high and low fantasy.

Both I think are underutilized currently, and could probably add some fresh gameplay ideas.

They''re coming for you!

quote: Original post by pwd
Low Fantasy: "Gritty" fantasy. No knights in shining armor rescuing princesses, Good Vs. Evil is grey vs grey, instead of black vs white. Heroes tend to fall into their circumstances, while trying to go on with life the only way they can. Monsters tend to have more of an impact than "Oh, another dragon".

Mmm, yes, yes. This is exactly where I will be aiming at when I start my RPG.

In fact, most fantasy books are a lot ''lower'' than fantasy computer games, and even the tabletop roleplaying games. How many books have wizards casting fireballs? How often did Gandalf use magic in Lord of the Rings? Even the books based on the Dragonlance series, TSR''s "high fantasy" world, was a lot more down-to-earth than the AD+D games many roleplayers played in that world. So there is a wealth of literature there which is not being faithfully exploited.



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quote: Original post by Tacit
pwd, regarding steampunk, you have read William Gibson & Bruce Sterling''s ''The Difference Engine''? If not, you MUST!

Darnit, that was on my to-read list years ago (I think around the time that the Chaos Engine came out), but it fell through the cracks. I''ll probably go hunt down a copy tonight, and bump it back onto the list.

Kylotan: Best of luck. I''m sure one of the factors that keeps a lot of games in the realm of high fantasy is an attempt to keep mechanics simple. It''s simpler to say casting spell X takes y amount of time and energy and does z, rather than playing out some sort of interaction with otherworldy forces to (possibly) come up with the desired results, or generating a system to judge the quality of any sort of ritual. Likewise creating a horde of "goblins" is simpler than really fleshing out a single creature. It may also seem like wasted effort to craft a single creature that may or may not come into play, than to craft a creature that the player will meet many times over. I would definitely be interested in seeing the results of your efforts .

They''re coming for you!

Greetings everyone, I may get laughed out of these forums but I'd like to run an idea/genre for MMORPG that, to my knowledge, has not been attempted yet.

Let me say that I think the drawback to this idea would be a possible limit to substance that could be added to the game, thus leaving it to a grim fate, but at least hear me out.

I was reading the above posts and someone mentioned a "gritty" MMORPG that would involve less fantasy and it lead me to this idea. How about a game based on the Old Wild West of the United States? PvP could be amazing whether you choose to be an outlaw, lawman, mountain man, civilian, native american or calvary. However, like in the old west, certain large established towns like Dodge City, Dead Wood and Tombstone will outlaw weapons... thus, following that idea, large towns could be safe havens for the more social players. You could hang in the saloon and spin great stories of shootouts and loves with other characters over a game of poker, blackjack, etc. Maybe you like to be a merchant, you could have a char thats trained in Leatherworking or gunsmithing, and establish a reputation of making the best saddles, holsters, pistols and rifles in Tombstone or whatever. While not having to worry about being "player killed" while finalizing a trade. I've played Asheron's Call for a while and the NON-PvP servers have extensive in game "trading and selling market" between players in the more populated areas; however, there is NO trading or selling market between players IN GAME for the PvP servers. All trading/selling is done in forums outside of the game and then carried out quickly in game, thus the social aspect is far lacking on the PvP servers.

Experience in these games could be earned doing tasks related to the characters profession choise (i.e. Calvary would escort civilians to other civilizations and protect new encampments, lawmen could excise bounties and manhunts, outlaws would try to rob trains or banks (not all towns are "no weapon" towns), native americans would try to maintain their hunting grounds from the western advance, etc.). Tasks could be given by historical chars of the old west (Sitting Bull, Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, Butch Cassidy, Jim Bridger, etc.) much like chars on DAOC or Asheron's Call give tasks/quests through rumors. Moreover, the local townspeople could require minor tasks for the low level characters like acting as the pony express and safely delivering messages or hunting for the hide/pelt of certain animals for money and experience, per the "mountain man" model.

As mentioned earlier, the larger towns would have firearm/weapon checkins at the entrances but the smaller towns would not. Thus, the smaller towns could become ruled by Gangs (Guilds) of outlaws, lawmen, etc and they could exact justice as they see fit. In these towns could exist the old wild west shootouts that have made the west so famous in books and movies.
Not all chars would be trained in rifle and pistol use, you might find use for an explosives or lockpicking skilled character for a group of outlaws. Or, those social chars could train in leatherworking for saddles, holsters boots... or maybe in gunsmithing for repairing and upgrading weapons or making ammunition... or what about a Doctor, to go along and bandage characters to help them heal faster.

Characters should have attributes and skills that can be adjusted and increased as they age. By doing so, people can earn an in game reputation as "the quickest draw" or "the sharpest shot". At this point, the skill points could be huge since low players might have a cursor that sways with breath or jumps with heartbeat more since they are less experienced as a shootist or have a delay in drawing the weapon in accordance with a new character's lower speed factor.

This may seem like a bad idea, but it seems that there are a plethora of "fantasy/medieval" MMORPG's and it appears that "futuristic/space age" MMORPG's are not far behind them; so this may be a breath of fresh gaming.

Edited by - Doc Holliday on February 21, 2002 9:30:32 PM