there should be magic in fantasy games. You shouldn''t be able to buy magic items in stores though. You should find them in a mystical mountain or something. You should only be able to buy regular items in stores. Like long sword, shield, and poition. You should get magic things from chests or from battles. Like, the sword ofdeadly fire you''d get from killing a hell spawn. or the kings robe (armor), you''d find in a chest.
Dade 11
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Enchanted Weapons Soapbox
I personally think we need more magical weapons in medi-evil RPG''s. "But" they need to be depletable, all of them that is. There also needs to be more variety. This is my catch you see... if you agree with me that there needs to be more variety of magical items then you are saying that there needs to be more magical items, haha. So careful as you tread.
There''s nothing worse than a magical item that supplies it''s power forever (in abundance or similar). These sorts of abilities are reserved for the most powerful and godly items that corupt the human spirit not weilded like a kids plastic sword.
We definity need more magical items i say.
The issue on items being freely available from a shop.. well thats a hard one. It depends on the items power. What i personally think would be good is false magical items. This would catch the player off side and make them think for a nice change.
I say "more empasis on magic items" because it divides the player attention to other possible powers in the game.
WE are their,
"Sons of the Free"
There''s nothing worse than a magical item that supplies it''s power forever (in abundance or similar). These sorts of abilities are reserved for the most powerful and godly items that corupt the human spirit not weilded like a kids plastic sword.
We definity need more magical items i say.
The issue on items being freely available from a shop.. well thats a hard one. It depends on the items power. What i personally think would be good is false magical items. This would catch the player off side and make them think for a nice change.
I say "more empasis on magic items" because it divides the player attention to other possible powers in the game.
WE are their,
"Sons of the Free"
Maybe the magic in magic items should be limited. What I mean is, instead of having energy drain or freeze, only have a magic weapon have +dam or +speed.?
-----------------------------------------------
All messages are of my own personal opinion and
not meant to offend. But if they do - tough :)
Neuro.
-----------------------------------------------
All messages are of my own personal opinion and
not meant to offend. But if they do - tough :)
Neuro.
What laws of nature says magic items are only created by demonic beings, or that they are only found in temples or deep in the heart of dungeons under 20 feet of lava or acidic water? What laws of nature determine how easy or difficult it is to use magic, or that one person or another is even capable or incapable of performing magic?
The only laws that answer these questions are the very laws that the people creating these games make up. When you talk about a fantasy world, the words sensible, rational, realistic, plausible, and any of their synonyms have only a small degree of meaning. What is so sensible about being burned to a crisp by a fire breathing reptilian lizard 40 feet long that is more intelligent then any human being? If we remove all the illogical, irrational, unrealistic elements from our fantasy worlds, then we remove the fantasy.
To say that magic should be rare, hard to use, impossible to purchase in a shop, and overall unavailable is nothing more then your opinion of what a fantasy world should be like. As for game balance, so long as the amount of magic available is taken into account when addressing balance, that aspect is a non-issue.
Personally, I like both types of games. I enjoy the awe inspiring rarity of powerful magic, but I also enjoy the fantastic and unbelievable battles between two heavily magic equipped forces.
So, how do I make sense out of buying an enchanted or magical item at a shop? The same way I make sense out of that very item even existing.
The only laws that answer these questions are the very laws that the people creating these games make up. When you talk about a fantasy world, the words sensible, rational, realistic, plausible, and any of their synonyms have only a small degree of meaning. What is so sensible about being burned to a crisp by a fire breathing reptilian lizard 40 feet long that is more intelligent then any human being? If we remove all the illogical, irrational, unrealistic elements from our fantasy worlds, then we remove the fantasy.
To say that magic should be rare, hard to use, impossible to purchase in a shop, and overall unavailable is nothing more then your opinion of what a fantasy world should be like. As for game balance, so long as the amount of magic available is taken into account when addressing balance, that aspect is a non-issue.
Personally, I like both types of games. I enjoy the awe inspiring rarity of powerful magic, but I also enjoy the fantastic and unbelievable battles between two heavily magic equipped forces.
So, how do I make sense out of buying an enchanted or magical item at a shop? The same way I make sense out of that very item even existing.
A fantasy world without gorbs of magic is perfectly conceivable
Just read Tolkien''s books and you''ll know what i''m talking about :-) They feature great stories with very little doses of magic.
In the Lord of the Rings 4 example, magic is used and mastered only by the very powerful and the very wise (Elrond, Galadriel...), and they use it as little as possible (Gandalf).
So a world where it is not possible for the perfect looser to grab on a magic ring is conceivable.
Mustard
Just read Tolkien''s books and you''ll know what i''m talking about :-) They feature great stories with very little doses of magic.
In the Lord of the Rings 4 example, magic is used and mastered only by the very powerful and the very wise (Elrond, Galadriel...), and they use it as little as possible (Gandalf).
So a world where it is not possible for the perfect looser to grab on a magic ring is conceivable.
Mustard
Magic I think adds strategy to battles in fantasy worlds. Spells, weapons and items. A world without magic would have to make up for that by adding a lot more strategy elements to regular melee fighting.
Magic items/weapons in shops?
Well, the premise of giving intelligent beings the ability to bestow enchantments on items, might very well lead to the merchants offering those enchanted items in their discount store.
In the year 0, one particularly powerful wizard creates a magical sword and gives it to his best friend, a mighty warrior; the first magical item is created by a ''human'' being.
By year 10, more items have been created.
By year 100, even more items have been created.
By year 1000, more and more and more items are being created.
By year 10,000, magical items are being found and created all over the world.
By year 20,000, merchants start buying up magical items from poor hero''s and selling them in their stores.
The only way to avoid this, is to somehow limit the potential of the being that create these magical items. Maybe a special resource besides magic is needed to create magical items (I just read the Icewind Dale Trilogy, in which a dwarf creates a magical warhammer, using powerful incantation, his blacksmithing ability, and some sort of magical dust -no idea where that came from, although it might''ve listed it, but I don''t remember-).
Maybe the amount of magic in the world is limited, so that creating a new magic, requires another item of magic to be destroyed (I like that one, imagine a player wanting to create his own magical item, say a longsword +10% chance to hit. He would have to find other magical items and drain the magic from these items into his own. The other items will become mundane items, the longsword will become magical. Maybe a little power is lost during the transfer, thus disabling players from creating uberitems).
Maybe the magic is the power of the Gods themselves, thus the more powerful a God, the more magical items his followers can create, but as it drains the God, the less powerful the priesthood of that God will be.
As long as it''s not just (to use the Everquest Enchanter as an example, as many think that one day they will be able to enchant items):
-get regular sword
-memorize magical Enchantment spell
-get components required for enchantment
-press button
-admire new magical sword
Merchants selling magical items...BLAH!
(also...characters equiped in all sorts of magical items...BLAH!)
Silvermyst
Magic items/weapons in shops?
Well, the premise of giving intelligent beings the ability to bestow enchantments on items, might very well lead to the merchants offering those enchanted items in their discount store.
In the year 0, one particularly powerful wizard creates a magical sword and gives it to his best friend, a mighty warrior; the first magical item is created by a ''human'' being.
By year 10, more items have been created.
By year 100, even more items have been created.
By year 1000, more and more and more items are being created.
By year 10,000, magical items are being found and created all over the world.
By year 20,000, merchants start buying up magical items from poor hero''s and selling them in their stores.
The only way to avoid this, is to somehow limit the potential of the being that create these magical items. Maybe a special resource besides magic is needed to create magical items (I just read the Icewind Dale Trilogy, in which a dwarf creates a magical warhammer, using powerful incantation, his blacksmithing ability, and some sort of magical dust -no idea where that came from, although it might''ve listed it, but I don''t remember-).
Maybe the amount of magic in the world is limited, so that creating a new magic, requires another item of magic to be destroyed (I like that one, imagine a player wanting to create his own magical item, say a longsword +10% chance to hit. He would have to find other magical items and drain the magic from these items into his own. The other items will become mundane items, the longsword will become magical. Maybe a little power is lost during the transfer, thus disabling players from creating uberitems).
Maybe the magic is the power of the Gods themselves, thus the more powerful a God, the more magical items his followers can create, but as it drains the God, the less powerful the priesthood of that God will be.
As long as it''s not just (to use the Everquest Enchanter as an example, as many think that one day they will be able to enchant items):
-get regular sword
-memorize magical Enchantment spell
-get components required for enchantment
-press button
-admire new magical sword
Merchants selling magical items...BLAH!
(also...characters equiped in all sorts of magical items...BLAH!)
Silvermyst
Author
Thank you everyone for responding so enthusiastically. You''re right, "Fantasy" is often defined by magic. It would be a hard split. Not one I want to make necessarily. I just want to point something out about magic in shops... Many of you said that it might make sense if somebody found it and sold it, or if the shop keeper stumbled upon it somehow... why would these people want to sell it?! It''s MAGIC, for god''s sake! You''re going to treasure it, and certainly not let anyone know you have it, much less sell it! It''s freaking priceless!
So here are the new questions:
What about a "historical" game in that it is medeival, but not fantasy? All humans, too. No magic. A sparse helping of things from myth, so much so that you *hear* about much more than you see. What do you think?
Also, the best D&D games I ever ran were ones where every magical item had a NAME and a HISTORY behind it''s creation, use, and lineage. They were very hard to come by, and thier power resided mostly in their reputation... They were''t *that* much better than normal weapons. Should we try for this, sometime, too?
Woo Hoo!
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
-Socrates
So here are the new questions:
What about a "historical" game in that it is medeival, but not fantasy? All humans, too. No magic. A sparse helping of things from myth, so much so that you *hear* about much more than you see. What do you think?
Also, the best D&D games I ever ran were ones where every magical item had a NAME and a HISTORY behind it''s creation, use, and lineage. They were very hard to come by, and thier power resided mostly in their reputation... They were''t *that* much better than normal weapons. Should we try for this, sometime, too?
Woo Hoo!
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
-Socrates
I''m gonna have to agree with a lot of people here. Most "Fantasy" settings are based off of the very-real medieval time of our world. Magic was legandary then, there were fables of actual wizards, destroying evil wherever they went. Magic was made up the same way the Greeks and Romans made up their gods. To explain stuff that couldn''t be explained. Therefore, I think magic should be unexplainable.
Paul and theRaskell, I disagree with you. Magic should not be common place. Why not? Because of what it really was back then. Legendary. Mythical. I don''t think monsters should be that commonplace, either, unless of course ye olde demon lord is on a rampage again, summoning monster hordes out of his butt (jeez, will he lighten up already?). But then, you will need that magic sword from the water spirit to defeat him......
My point is, if you''re gonna have legendary/mythical stuff in your game, MAKE IT LEGENDARY/MYTHICAL.
"Here comes armageddon, we're gonna have some fun.
Here comes armageddon, everybody grab your gun"
Paul and theRaskell, I disagree with you. Magic should not be common place. Why not? Because of what it really was back then. Legendary. Mythical. I don''t think monsters should be that commonplace, either, unless of course ye olde demon lord is on a rampage again, summoning monster hordes out of his butt (jeez, will he lighten up already?). But then, you will need that magic sword from the water spirit to defeat him......
My point is, if you''re gonna have legendary/mythical stuff in your game, MAKE IT LEGENDARY/MYTHICAL.
"Here comes armageddon, we're gonna have some fun.
Here comes armageddon, everybody grab your gun"
Author
Pac, I agree with you in principle, but if that is the kind of setting they want to make, let it be so. So long as they have considered the implications and decided that it is the best way. =)
Well Now,
I suppose that if the shop owener was a
retired wizard that wanted to make money
on his skills in his old age that would be
OK. Also If the shop keeper were say a major
thief that would explain a lot.
Or you could simply adapt the story so''s
that magic items were common place and magic
was frivelous maybe just in that region
or town maybe. Oh well I out of ideas.
STVOY
Mega Moh Mine!!
I suppose that if the shop owener was a
retired wizard that wanted to make money
on his skills in his old age that would be
OK. Also If the shop keeper were say a major
thief that would explain a lot.
Or you could simply adapt the story so''s
that magic items were common place and magic
was frivelous maybe just in that region
or town maybe. Oh well I out of ideas.
STVOY
Mega Moh Mine!!
This topic is closed to new replies.
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