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Enchanted Weapons Soapbox
What exactly do you disagree with me on, pacman? The only specific point I was trying to make was that, in a fantasy environment, absolutely anything is free game as far as what could be possible, because it is all about fantasy. You can certainly argue how much fantasy there should be, but the only statements I made to that affect were that I enjoy fantasy worlds of both extremes, from the magic is rare is used by only the elite few to just about every peon has magic of some sort, and the powerful are literally swimming in it. That''s purely a matter of taste though, and it isn''t subject to agreement or disagreement because there is no right or wrong when it comes to tastes. Yours are different then mine, which are different then everyone elses. To disagree with the statement that anything is possible in a fantasy environment though is to say your opinion is the only one that is right.
That being said though, the type of magics that I enjoy the most are the types that aren''t necessarily combat related. The types that add spice to the game beyond fighting, or perhaps add spice to the fighting. Humor is good, bizarre is good, subtle is good, outrageous is good. Some of the items in the AD&D campaigns I''ve been in are...
a necklace that made the hair all over your body stand on end and made you foam at the mouth. It wasn''t a cursed item, and it was used by our wizard to scare off a group of upstart evil doer wannabes. They were just naive and thought being bad was cool. Half way through the campaign our Paladin learned enough about them that any sort of physical assault at all was a last resort, and killing them was definitely out of the question. The cool thing was the necklace was a randomly created fun item created in a previous adventure, one of many we''ve had, and one of the few that has proven to be useful in one of our ventures.
Others that were fun but never ended up serving any particular use...
a dagger that melted almost instantly when it came in contact with blood, only to reform itself seconds later. It was discovered that a forceful thrust to a body part resulted in a superficial wound and a completely melted blade. The melted metal (or whatever the material ended up being) running out of the wound ruined any fake assault affects that could have been possible.
A book of pictures of flowers that became real when you ripped the page out of the book. Our wannabe cassanovas were always trying to get this book from the cleric that found it.
A pop staff. When you tapped the tip on any surface, it made a moderately loud popping sound. One of our thieves discovered it wasn''t very strong when he tried using it in combat. He was hoping the popping sound would distract his opponents, but our DM at the time wasn''t cooperative. We think he broke it intentionally after repeated proddings by the thief.
Most of these items, as well as more powerful and combat or utility focused items, were in campaigns were it was agreed upon by the group that magic probings would reveal little about magic items, forcing trial and error experimentation to determine magic properties. Some of the best times I''ve had in those campaigns were exploring all the potential uses of these magical items that we found in every dungeon we explored. We never knew when an item would be of some generic magical nature or would have some truly unique and spectacular properties. Some items we used for quite some time without discovering their best features. All this joy of exploration would have been toned down significantly if magic was as rare as many of you THINK it should be. Perhaps the problem isn''t the level of magic in the worlds you people explore, but how it is used.
btw, in many of our campaigns magical items were readily available for sale, but many merchants knew just as much about them as we did. And magical proddings would give us relative levels of magical power, just not anything remotely specific.
That being said though, the type of magics that I enjoy the most are the types that aren''t necessarily combat related. The types that add spice to the game beyond fighting, or perhaps add spice to the fighting. Humor is good, bizarre is good, subtle is good, outrageous is good. Some of the items in the AD&D campaigns I''ve been in are...
a necklace that made the hair all over your body stand on end and made you foam at the mouth. It wasn''t a cursed item, and it was used by our wizard to scare off a group of upstart evil doer wannabes. They were just naive and thought being bad was cool. Half way through the campaign our Paladin learned enough about them that any sort of physical assault at all was a last resort, and killing them was definitely out of the question. The cool thing was the necklace was a randomly created fun item created in a previous adventure, one of many we''ve had, and one of the few that has proven to be useful in one of our ventures.
Others that were fun but never ended up serving any particular use...
a dagger that melted almost instantly when it came in contact with blood, only to reform itself seconds later. It was discovered that a forceful thrust to a body part resulted in a superficial wound and a completely melted blade. The melted metal (or whatever the material ended up being) running out of the wound ruined any fake assault affects that could have been possible.
A book of pictures of flowers that became real when you ripped the page out of the book. Our wannabe cassanovas were always trying to get this book from the cleric that found it.
A pop staff. When you tapped the tip on any surface, it made a moderately loud popping sound. One of our thieves discovered it wasn''t very strong when he tried using it in combat. He was hoping the popping sound would distract his opponents, but our DM at the time wasn''t cooperative. We think he broke it intentionally after repeated proddings by the thief.
Most of these items, as well as more powerful and combat or utility focused items, were in campaigns were it was agreed upon by the group that magic probings would reveal little about magic items, forcing trial and error experimentation to determine magic properties. Some of the best times I''ve had in those campaigns were exploring all the potential uses of these magical items that we found in every dungeon we explored. We never knew when an item would be of some generic magical nature or would have some truly unique and spectacular properties. Some items we used for quite some time without discovering their best features. All this joy of exploration would have been toned down significantly if magic was as rare as many of you THINK it should be. Perhaps the problem isn''t the level of magic in the worlds you people explore, but how it is used.
btw, in many of our campaigns magical items were readily available for sale, but many merchants knew just as much about them as we did. And magical proddings would give us relative levels of magical power, just not anything remotely specific.
Raskell, I''m sorry I was unclear. You are right, those things can only be opinion, and I''m not trying to say mine is the only right one.
What I was talking about you''re last statement and how I read that. Just because the item exists doesn''t mean one should be able to acquire it easily. Mundane and next to useless items could probably be purchesed from a wizard''s training academy if one really wanted something magical. I was talking about truly powerful items, ones that everyone is "saving up for" so you too can be a bad ass.
If I read your statement wrong (again), I apologize.
"Here comes armageddon, we're gonna have some fun.
Here comes armageddon, everybody grab your gun"
What I was talking about you''re last statement and how I read that. Just because the item exists doesn''t mean one should be able to acquire it easily. Mundane and next to useless items could probably be purchesed from a wizard''s training academy if one really wanted something magical. I was talking about truly powerful items, ones that everyone is "saving up for" so you too can be a bad ass.
If I read your statement wrong (again), I apologize.
"Here comes armageddon, we're gonna have some fun.
Here comes armageddon, everybody grab your gun"
Easy... it''s called "Stat Inflation". Or that''s at least what I call it!
When I played my first D&D games about 20 (22 i think!) years ago, I didn''t see a "magic" item for a few hours. Guess what we found?
YEP! A +1 sword! YEHAAA!! *** +1 ***
Of course, now if I find a +1 sword I''m not even likely to pick it up. Why? Because it''s old hat. Now I need a +3 Sword, x2 damage vs. Demons or something.
Just look at any game now. They all suffer from Stat Inflation. In EverQuest, I just eBay''d an item that gave practically +10 to every attribute. Please!
When I played my first D&D games about 20 (22 i think!) years ago, I didn''t see a "magic" item for a few hours. Guess what we found?
YEP! A +1 sword! YEHAAA!! *** +1 ***
Of course, now if I find a +1 sword I''m not even likely to pick it up. Why? Because it''s old hat. Now I need a +3 Sword, x2 damage vs. Demons or something.
Just look at any game now. They all suffer from Stat Inflation. In EverQuest, I just eBay''d an item that gave practically +10 to every attribute. Please!
quote: Original post by Landfish
why would these people want to sell it?! It''s MAGIC, for god''s sake! You''re going to treasure it, and certainly not let anyone know you have it, much less sell it! It''s freaking priceless!
That''s damn silly, approaching stupid. I was expecting better sense out of you, Landfish! If you suddenly find yourself able to do magic you wouldn''t just create weapons for the occasional king, you''d find some way to support yourself by contributing to the local economy. Make candles that burn fakely so they won''t set the peasants'' huts on fire if they tip over. Make jewelries that make their wearers look prettier (+1 to charisthma). Make waterproof boots and stronger shields and warmer cloaks and healing potions. The only magical items that shouldn''t be available at shops at all are super-powerful ones and ones designed to fix problems the average citizen would never encounter.
Not that I have anything against non-magic fantasy settings by the way - I''m writing one now. Matriarchal society of furry people whose social role is determined heavily by fur color inheritance, with renissance-level technology and a confucianist-like moral system.
Since I don''t do fantasy stuff I prefer weapons enchanced by weaponsmiths like FN-Fal enchanced by Archaon the weaponsmith, gives + 10 to range, +30 to "to hit", It''s unjammable and it has extended mag and faster firerate.
Why I don''t do fantasy stuff anymore is that R.Salvatores books wasted the whole area. It started after 1st Drizzt Do''Urden book when Salvatore started to lick AD&D players ass. Books were like this: Drizzt kills, Drizzt finds out his secret desire to search for treasures, he loots some corpses, Drizzt crawls in self-pity, he becomes maniac, he kills more, he loots some stuff, he gets new sword named Double Twinkle(or was it Blinky, who cares) XXX Demonslayer which returns to his hand and it''s enchanced + 30, 15 to ac, Drizzt has awful desire to back home where everyone is against him, place was called Mphzmphf or something and there was academy called Melee Maightre or something. Now drizzt scents that he has to save the world from evil dragon/mage who throws Fireballs and cloudkills. He kills some hobkoblins and gains some abilities, now he kills some more bad orcs and finds out that evil bastard is in supereme tower of evil and he has 3 helpers. Now he does exactly same things at next 3 books, but at the end of the book his stupid Guenhawaywar *almost* dies and he kills 1 one of the evil bastard''s minions. At the 5th book he arrests the bad boss, but bad boss has so many hit points that he has to nail it to the stone wall and hammer him 2 weeks with a siege ram untill it dies, but unfotunately his bad soul escapes, now Salvatore has more material for next 10 books.
Salvatore, Forgotten Realms, TSR, AD&D and Drizzt Do''Urden have had so huge effect on RPG games what we are making/playing that we SHOULD boygott every product from TSR, because 1stly: They are eating all the rules for P''n''P RPG games(Bad Monopoly) 2ndly: They are doing bad AD&D computer games with their ally Black Isle and trying to get monopoly from it AND 3rdly: Players can''t see it, they think that it''s good when TSR brings new setting or new version AD&D every year which is must to buy, while they are taking their money away. This is probably same feeling which Landfish gots when he reads my posts about Burger players. I mean players who like stats and levelels and everything that usual.
Now I will get flamed from wannabe Drizzt Do''Urdens who play ad&d with chaotic good dark elf ranger. I gotta go to the caves and find ring of flame protection from orc boss or something.
Time comes, time goes and I only am.
Why I don''t do fantasy stuff anymore is that R.Salvatores books wasted the whole area. It started after 1st Drizzt Do''Urden book when Salvatore started to lick AD&D players ass. Books were like this: Drizzt kills, Drizzt finds out his secret desire to search for treasures, he loots some corpses, Drizzt crawls in self-pity, he becomes maniac, he kills more, he loots some stuff, he gets new sword named Double Twinkle(or was it Blinky, who cares) XXX Demonslayer which returns to his hand and it''s enchanced + 30, 15 to ac, Drizzt has awful desire to back home where everyone is against him, place was called Mphzmphf or something and there was academy called Melee Maightre or something. Now drizzt scents that he has to save the world from evil dragon/mage who throws Fireballs and cloudkills. He kills some hobkoblins and gains some abilities, now he kills some more bad orcs and finds out that evil bastard is in supereme tower of evil and he has 3 helpers. Now he does exactly same things at next 3 books, but at the end of the book his stupid Guenhawaywar *almost* dies and he kills 1 one of the evil bastard''s minions. At the 5th book he arrests the bad boss, but bad boss has so many hit points that he has to nail it to the stone wall and hammer him 2 weeks with a siege ram untill it dies, but unfotunately his bad soul escapes, now Salvatore has more material for next 10 books.
Salvatore, Forgotten Realms, TSR, AD&D and Drizzt Do''Urden have had so huge effect on RPG games what we are making/playing that we SHOULD boygott every product from TSR, because 1stly: They are eating all the rules for P''n''P RPG games(Bad Monopoly) 2ndly: They are doing bad AD&D computer games with their ally Black Isle and trying to get monopoly from it AND 3rdly: Players can''t see it, they think that it''s good when TSR brings new setting or new version AD&D every year which is must to buy, while they are taking their money away. This is probably same feeling which Landfish gots when he reads my posts about Burger players. I mean players who like stats and levelels and everything that usual.
Now I will get flamed from wannabe Drizzt Do''Urdens who play ad&d with chaotic good dark elf ranger. I gotta go to the caves and find ring of flame protection from orc boss or something.
Time comes, time goes and I only am.
Sorry Landfish Pal:
>>Spy, those are all combat related compared to say, a ''Back >>Massage" spell. =)
Moonwell and Gate are travelling spells and got nothing to do with combat. Explain where you see the connections. Invisibility isn''t either combat related as you can''t combat while invisible. Minor creation, creation of food for instance is not combat related you eat go figure.
Bottom line there are plenty of spells that aren''t combat related.
>>Spy, those are all combat related compared to say, a ''Back >>Massage" spell. =)
Moonwell and Gate are travelling spells and got nothing to do with combat. Explain where you see the connections. Invisibility isn''t either combat related as you can''t combat while invisible. Minor creation, creation of food for instance is not combat related you eat go figure.
Bottom line there are plenty of spells that aren''t combat related.
(Enchanted weapons soapbox)
It was once proposed that you are the some of your memories.
No magic role playing medievil RPG. How refreshing in a way. But are "magical" items just another word for "special" items/abilities. I think they are. So if you take out magic then all your doing is making everything revolve around ordinary abilities/yes?
Where''s the problem with this? Well the players will want more freedom with their ordinary abilities will they not?
So what your saying Landfish is not necessarily - get rid of magic - but encourage characterization?
I''ll stop here for pointers.
WE are their,
"Sons of the Free"
It was once proposed that you are the some of your memories.
No magic role playing medievil RPG. How refreshing in a way. But are "magical" items just another word for "special" items/abilities. I think they are. So if you take out magic then all your doing is making everything revolve around ordinary abilities/yes?
Where''s the problem with this? Well the players will want more freedom with their ordinary abilities will they not?
So what your saying Landfish is not necessarily - get rid of magic - but encourage characterization?
I''ll stop here for pointers.
WE are their,
"Sons of the Free"
I remember playing The Bard''s Tale about, ooh, 10 years or more ago. After days and days of "you found a plate mail" or "dagger" or "scale mail" or "broad sword", I was ecstatic when it finally said "you found a mithril sword". Woohoo! (The fact that it is actually worse than a non-magical halberd was far from my thoughts at the time.)
I like to keep the magical items rare, so that they are given the kind of respect that they receive in nearly all major fantasy books. To do this within a system though, you need to show that the average magic user (and should there be so many magic users, for that matter? Same issue, really.) cannot just make an item ''enchanted'' that easily. Shouldn''t it take a lot of magic users? Or a large potential for failure? Or is the item bonded to a specific individual? The items need to be rare, so that no-one would sell one to a shop.
Oh, and make sure your shopkeepers don''t have the ability to detect magic.
"What do you mean, you''ll only give me 5 gold pieces for it?? This is a SuperCombustible Broadsword +5, +10 vs. bad guys!! It''s worth thousands!"
"Yeah, yeah, whatever you say m''lord. But hey, it has a nice pommel. I''ll offer you 6 gold, then."
I like to keep the magical items rare, so that they are given the kind of respect that they receive in nearly all major fantasy books. To do this within a system though, you need to show that the average magic user (and should there be so many magic users, for that matter? Same issue, really.) cannot just make an item ''enchanted'' that easily. Shouldn''t it take a lot of magic users? Or a large potential for failure? Or is the item bonded to a specific individual? The items need to be rare, so that no-one would sell one to a shop.
Oh, and make sure your shopkeepers don''t have the ability to detect magic.
"What do you mean, you''ll only give me 5 gold pieces for it?? This is a SuperCombustible Broadsword +5, +10 vs. bad guys!! It''s worth thousands!"
"Yeah, yeah, whatever you say m''lord. But hey, it has a nice pommel. I''ll offer you 6 gold, then."
This topic is closed to new replies.
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