The game industry seems to have an interesting degree of extremism going on. On on hand, we have key speakers for the IGDA that say theres no place for story in game, which then eliminates everything save the monopoly and tetris clones, adjusted for today''s technology. And on the other we get CD2 of Xenogears. What this ends up leaving is what is called the "low-level story" where a paragraph is offered at the beginning of the game, and again after you kill the John Romero wall, and everything inbetween is left up to the player to figure out why. I kinda dislike these. What we rather have to learn, which the japanese seem to be doing a good job of, is how to incorperate the best of both, and to generate some consistant layer of sophistication in it. Here I''d offer games like Mischief Makers (Enix, N64) where theres a coherent story, for the most part, and everything seems to just fall in line with yoko art. Final Fantasy Tactics is another good one, where it takes on the form of some kind of historical discussion, and each scene after battle adds to story and it reproducable from your "brave story" menu option. And then, theres Rez, which I haven''t played yet, but it looks really funky. At any rate, if the american game industry wants to pick up any, we need to step above "U R IN HELL, GO FORTH AND KICK ASS" and start working on some kind of enlightened artistic design.

As for carlson, he needs either a big name to say "yes, he''s right," or a way bigger base.

Will Bubel

Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

I just don''t understand these people who say there is no place for story in games. It points to a marked close-mindedness to what could be done with the genre. I read an article Greg Costikyan wrote covering the topic of stories in games, where he very clearly expounds his personal belief that stories and games are each other''s antithesis. He then goes on to list all kinds of reasons why this is so. If I had more industry credibility I''d love to write a rebuttal to this argument, which I personally think is a lot of crap. It''s one thing to say that the way the industy currently functions, in most cases game development does not allow for compelling storytelling. That is not the same thing as saying there is no room for storytelling in or through games.

Granted, there are certain genres or types of games upon which story is completely wasted. Conversely, there are existing genres and types, and probably new ones we haven''t explored yet, that do benefit from story elements taking a more prominent role. It often seems like there is an unreasonable amount of resistance to the idea of using games to tell stories (I''m not saying they should be used exclusivly to tell stories, but that the medium allows for it), and many times it only seems attributable to an attitude on the part of some developers who perhaps came from purely technical backgrounds that dislike the idea of a non-programmer having creative influence on a game. It''s analogous to the argument against the non-programmer game designer. Perhaps the people who started the industry, who were mainly programmers, feel threatened by the trend in tools and technology which will eventually allow tech-savvy non-programmers to do a lot of what it now takes a team of programmers to do. I''m not sure...

I just think there should be more of an attitude of openness and mutual respect, an acknowledgement that both ''sides'' of the coin have valuable and vital skills to offer, and that the only way things will evolve from their current stagnant state is to examine new ways to make games.

R.

The only areas I''ve seen narrative and story working against a game is maybe Metal Gear Solid 2 on some lengthy portions. But in terms of strict gameplay, even normal games give the player an opportunity to take a break and recoup and that seems like the best place if any to fill in some juicy plot. As for jealousy between techies and non techies... its a possibility, but with game budgets soaring into the halfmillions and beyond, I suspect it won''t be a major problem anymore when men like Costikyan decide to retire, or go do something else... Speaking of which, I live in the Costikyan IGDA sector and missed my first opportunity at catching a speech of his. Any warnings for me before the second on in 4-6 months?

Will Bubel

Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

Kylotan, not really. See, what Costikyan should say is that games are the antithesis of conventional linear narratives. That is definitely not the same thing as saying games are not stories. His definition of a story is far too limited in scope and in my opinion his arguments are almost meaningless because he ignores many things story writers, who''ve adapted their craft to different media including games, have learned about the process. In his own game designs, I would agree that there is little room for story. But, to generalize the way he does is completely false. I''m not referring to the article you are but rather one which is published on his site.

That''s probably the oddest differentiation I''ve ever come across. Story is linear and narrative or fiction can be split up? I would use the words ''story'' and ''narrative'' interchangeably, and fiction just refers to the fact that whatever story you''re dealing with is not a rendition of actual events.

In any case, certainly my definition of story is much broader than probably yours and definitely broader that Costikyan''s.

This is the article I was referring to: http://www.costik.com/gamnstry.html